Hell Doesn't Sell
Robert W Dale said of the famous 19th century preacher, "There is no one in this world I would want to hear preach about hell except Dwight L Moody because I have never heard Moody preach on it without breaking down in the middle and weeping."
I believe modern day preachers have been intimidated by the religious liberals and non-believers. Today, preaching about Hell is not cool... It's just not done... Makes you a Bible-thumper. Hellfire and brimstone sermons make you an "ineffective" fossil.
Robert W Dale said of the famous 19th century preacher, "There is no one in this world I would want to hear preach about hell except Dwight L Moody because I have never heard Moody preach on it without breaking down in the middle and weeping."
I believe modern day preachers have been intimidated by the religious liberals and non-believers. Today, preaching about Hell is not cool... It's just not done... Makes you a Bible-thumper. Hellfire and brimstone sermons make you an "ineffective" fossil.
Somewhere church leaders became intimidated by the name-calling... And took the bait. They retooled the message to make it more palatable to the world... And they became Cool.
And I figure... "Cool" and "Lukewarm" are pretty much the same thing.
21 comments:
You got that right!
"And I figure... "Cool" and "Lukewarm" are pretty much the same thing."
Methinks that is right on the money.
Hell is, well...hell.
However, in Romans 2:4, Paul states that the kindness of G-d is what leads us to repentance. He was stating we should not have an attitude in vs 3, completing the "why not" (unasked question) in vs. 4.
For myself, it was much easier to accept His love when I knew He would not crispy critter me when I approached Him and His Throne of Grace.
The balance of knowing the reality of hell, with the reality of the Love of G-d that says to us we have the choice of who to follow. He draws us to Himself. We can run from hell, or we can be drawn.
Personally, I think I did both. ;-)
You know why preaching about hell isn't cool? Because of the same reason why jihadis preaching about having virgins in heaven is uncool. Because it's clearly a lie, and no intelligent person would really believe it.
Whoops, it's un-PC to call religious people stupid!
No Jacob, you're not being un-PC. Seems to be the cool thing to do.
Christians have been called worse than stupid.
Jacob:
Major difference in preaching about hell, and being a jihadist preaching about virgins.
jihadists only get the virgins when they die in a "homicide/suicide attack".
Christians don't go around blowing themselves and others up.
Jacob,
Tsofah's right. Christians just kill people with kindness. That takes a lot longer than explosives.
Yep. Christians only kill people with kindness... big, lead, explode-y ordnances of kindness.
And the reason it's uncool to preach to people about hell is that the concept just makes no sense to a rational mind -- that God will damn us to billions and billions of years of getting burned in unquenchable fire while getting eaten by undying worms while having our entrails repeatedly pulled from our bodies if we have the misfortune of not believing what people say is the word of God. Or maybe the misfortune of never having heard it in the first place, like the millions and millions of people who lived in the Americas before the conquisatdores and their monks came to these shores.
And then, in the next breath, to have the pastor explain, "But God is a loving god." If that's a loving God, then, well, I might as well love Satan.
Yeah, sorry, Mojo is pretty spot on. Think about it logically: a loving god would send someone to burn in a literal lake of fire for ever and ever because they didn't believe in a bunch of fairy tales written by Bronze Age tribesmen, as painfully false as they are?
Christians deserve to be called worse than stupid. Actually, that's not right. The fundies, the ones who believe in and impress upon others a mindless belief set that has no resemblance whatsoever to what Jesus actually spoke about, are the ones who deserve. I've met lots of Christ-like people, and surprisingly very few of them would call themselves Christian. This is my point.
since when have preachers ever been cool?
Sorry, guys, but G-d doesn't SEND anyone to hell. Honestly. Not one place in the Bible does it say G-d sends anyone to hell.
And, Christians aren't always kind. In fact, all human beings are pretty imperfect.
As a rule, though, Islam is the main religion that blows people up, or kills their own females in honor killings.
Nope, G-d doesn't send anyone to hell.
From the moment we are born, our bodies begin the process toward death. It's just the way life goes.
As we grow, we begin to consciously know wrong from right. The older we get, our choices then include what actions we will take. In old fashioned terms, we can choose to sin. Or not.
It is then we we are automatically destined to hell. (Hey, blame it on Adam, Eve, and the serpent).
G-d gives us a way out. Either we take it or we don't. If we don't then we bear the consequences of decision to not take the way out.
It's up to us. G-d doesn't send one person...NOT ONE...to hell.
Tsofah,
A few things I'd want to say to your argument.
1. If you believe that "all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God", then we are created as imperfect beings -- created by God, that is. If so, then he is effectively, by creating us worthy (in his mind) of burning forever, sending us to Hell.
2. Unfortunately, I just don't believe the Bible is the Word of God. I simply don't believe it. There's nothing I can do to make myself believe it is the Word of God. Therefore, I am destined for Hell through no fault of my own. I just don't believe it.
3. What about those who never hear "the good news"? Those in primitive cultures around the world throughout history? They never even had a chance to believe the way, because they were never afforded the ability to hear. According to the Bible, they are destined for Hell. That's millions of people God will confine to Hell. That's unfair of God, if it's true.
4. What about children who are unable to understand the meaning behind the gospel? They can't truly believe, then they are destined for Hell through no fault of their own, only the way they were made.
5. Consciously knowing right from wrong is irrelevant to the argument, because we are born with sin and are therefore destined for Hell.
6. If I simply don't believe the Bible is the Word of God, how is that "crime" worthy of the punishment of being set on fire for countless billions of years without hope of release? A God like that apparently has no sense of scale, and is merely burning ants with a magnifying glass for the sport of it. If God does exist, then that's not the kind of God I'm going to give a flying fig about. That kind of God can just sod off, in my humble opinion.
And honestly, whether or not you want to justify God by saying that he doesn't send them to Hell. Fine, he doesn't send them to Hell -- but he makes sure they can't get out, doesn't he? That's no better.
Though I will continue to read your post, Tsofah, and reply to the rest later, I stopped reading your post when I ghot to this point: We decide there is no G-d so we can justify our lifestyles, our rebellion, our sin. That's easier than acknowledging sin for what it is. That's easier than stopping the sin. Instead we become livid and angry. With G-d. And with people.
That is most definitely not why I don't believe (or don't disbelieve) that God is the god that is described in the Bible. I stopped believing that the Bible is the Word of God when I learned the FACT that the books Protestant Christians (among whom I counted myself for many years) count as inspired by God were chosen out of several other books that didn't make the cut. This suggested to the rational part of my mind that these early Christians simply chose the ones that seemed most harmonious with what they wanted to believe. That, in turn, cast doubt on the validity of the entire Protestant Bible -- especially when I learned that other Christians (Catholics, for example) believe other books are to be included in the inspired Word of God. Other denominations or sects count other books as inspired. Now, to my rational mind (as God theoretically has created me) that sounds like the sometimes contradictory words of the Bible may not in fact be the direct inspiration of God, but may, in fact, be words chosen by fallible men. And since it's impossible to know which books are the "correct" ones to believe, I'm not going to trust them. I*'m not going to trust the words of someone I've never met, never seen, and who lived thousands of years before me, to tell me what God wants me to do. Therefore, I'm not going to devote my soul to the concept of God that is presented in a fallible work of (potential) fiction. If God wants me, personally, to believe, then he needs to do a hell of a lot more to make me aware of his desires for my life.
Therefore, if God is sending me to the Lake of Fire for the supreme crime of not believing, then God can just kiss it. He's not worth believing in.
And for such as these I believe G-d makes a way. Just as he does for little children and babies. And for those who have not heard of Him.
We are only held responsible for that which we know. That is the G-d who gives a way out. For those who do not know, He is more than merciful.
Unfortunately, the Bible does not support this belief. There is no evidence for it in the text. It's a happy, fine belief, but there is no basis for it in the provided "Word of God". And since that is a "stumblingblock" to belief, you'd think that God would have had the foresight to make it clear in his published works.
G-d IS loving, but He IS just.
His "justice" -- sending people to Hell if they don't believe what others tell them -- is anything but. Other options certainly might occur to an all-knowing God, such as simply sending those unfortunate souls into oblivion, rather than tormenting them for their misfortune for ALL TIME. Or giving those souls a chance to redeem themsaelves in some manner.
Jesus has a choice: to finish that which He started in providing a way, or saying "I don't want to, I don't have to, and I'm not going to". He chose to go through with it.
If Jesus was/is God, then there's really no choice for him at all. I'd say that almost every single human being in the world would gladly give their lives if they absolutely knew, as Jesus is said to have known, that doing so would save billions. I know I would have. This is not as much of a sacrifice as people say.
That's the loving G-d Whom exists.
I believe that, if God exists, he really exists in your heart, and the hearts of all good people. In the noble thoughts that we all have; in the good that we do; in the ways we each make the world a kinder place with our own two hands. If we actually created God, as some have said, then that says volumes about what human beings are capable of.
Tsofah,
I'm glad you at least acknowledge the discrepancy -- many Christians turn to the old argument that God would make sure WE have the correct version of His Word, completely hanging OT believers and many others out to dry.
Unfortunately, the problem you have with the words of Paul are echoed by so many others. I mean so much of Christian doctrine is based upon the letters of Paul, where he expounds on the words of Jesus as given in the gospels that they are really the dominant forces behind what the Christian denominations teach and believe, rather than the words of Christ. But are they trustworthy guides? Some even discount the place of James and Hebrews in the NT. What is actually the Word of God? How can we put our trust in something so seemingly contrived by men and women who are no different from you or me? This disbelief is certainly no reason for God to send me to be eaten by worms for all time. It's quite understandable from a human perspective (the only one we can possibly have, after all).
A pointless argument about how much of an a-hole God is on the internet? Never!
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